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Інтерв’ю з представником Legion 1882 (Гленторан, Ірландія)

 
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Інтерв’ю з представником Legion 1882 (Гленторан, Ірландія)
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MagShop



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Аккурат после того, как стало ясно, что Гленторан до Карпат не доходит, я начал работу над интервью с лидером Legion 1882 - банды Гленторана, для немецкого фанзина Erlebniss Fussball.

Эта работа уже опубликована, потому, сейчас, ее можно выложить в интернет в полном объеме.
Прошу прощения, но она на английском, не считая вопросов. Мне было с руки работать сразу в английском языке, а на перевод сейчас, не сил не времени не хватить. Возможно кто-то возьметься.....если нет, то, англо-говорящие насладятся рассказом об истории и реалиях футбола и околофутбола в Северной Ирландии по полной, другим переводчки http://translate.google.ru/ в помощь.



Наше интервью, мы начнем нестандартно мой друг. Расскажи нам о своем городе, о его спортивной составляющей. Какие виды спорта в нем популярны, и какие команды имеют свою поддержку, своих фанатов?
In the City of Belfast the main sport, of course, is football. Belfast is home to 5 of the 12 teams that play in the Irish Premiership. Donegal Celtic (West Belfast), Cliftonville & Crusaders (North Belfast), Glentoran (East
Belfast) and our rivals Linfield (South Belfast). The Irish Premiership is only semi professional and therefore it does not get big crowds. I will show you a table of the average attendances for the 2008/09 and 2009/10 seasons.

Club Season 08/09 average Season 09/10 average % increase/drop
Dungannon 438 560 27.9% increase
Coleraine 841 1018 24.4% increase
Glenavon 670 800 19.4% increase
Crusaders 962 1115 15.9% increase
Cliftonville 724 827 14.2% increase
Ballymena 905 815 9.9% drop
Distillery 390 351 10% drop
Newry 366 329 10.1% drop
Linfield 2298 1996 13.1% drop
Glentoran 2197 1849 15.8% drop
Institute 585 449 23.2% drop
Bangor 428 n/a -
Portadown n/a 939 -


My club, Glentoran usually get around 1400/1500 per home game but because the derby vs Linfield attracts between 6000-10,000 fans, it skews the attendance average a bit. The only ultras we have in Northern Ireland is ourselves (Legion 1882) and the Portadown FC group (The Red Terrace) www.theredterrace.co.uk

Some matches between lower teams are very poorly attended, I think the lowest attendance for a game was 98 fans! The derby (Glentoran vs Linfield) usually attracts the trouble makers and there is quite often trouble inside the ground. Seats are ripped out and fireworks are thrown at rival fans and onto the pitch.

As for other sports in the city, Ulster Rugby plays at the stadium Ravenhill a few miles from The Oval (Glentorans stadium) and they are sometimes successful. They won the European Cup in 1999. The other main sport in Belfast is Ice Hockey. They play at the Oddssey Arena just 1 mile from The Oval. They are called the Belfast Giants and they play in the British Ice Hockey league against teams from all over the United Kingdom. They recently won the Play Offs in Nottingham and have had some notable players star for them in the past such as Theo Fluery who has played most of his career in the NHL. Unfortunately for us, both Rugby and Ice Hockey attract a considerable amount more of fans to each game due to the quality and better marketing and running of the sport by their associations.

As for non professional sports, there are dozens of other football and rugby teams that play in amateur leagues aswell as junior leagues.

Как обстоят дела с клубами, их посещаемостью и ультрас, во 2, 3 или более из низших дивизионов страны?
A lot of the clubs that play in the top tier of the Irish Premiership owe some money and because of the economy recession, a lot of the clubs are cutting back on budgets and offering smaller wages. The only club who does not need to worry about spending money is our rivals Linfield FC because of the controversial contract they have with the Irish Football Association who pay Linfield money to use their stadium for International games. Every other club in Northern Ireland does not like this and sees it as very unfair.
Glentoran and Linfield have the biggest attendance by far, around average 2000 just. The other clubs only get between 500-1000 unfortunately. As previously said, unfortunately the only ultras we have is Legion 1882 and The Red Terrace from Portadown FC. Not many people are interested in the ultras scene because they have a lack of knowledge about it and prefer to judge it by what they read in the media (the violence in Italy). Some fans of Glentoran and Portadown know different than them, they are interested in ultras and have a good knowledge on ultras from all over the world and take great interest in creating an atmosphere and making displays for football matches here in the Irish Premiership. The 2nd and 3rd division is called Irish Championship 1 and Irish Championship 2. This contains 14 and 16 teams respectively. These teams would only get a couple of hundred fans at each, interest in these lower leagues is very low as the quality is poor. The 3rd division even has the Police Service Northern Ireland team playing in it! Some of these teams play in small stadiums with either 1 or 0 stands, very few teams have seats, most are just football pitches with a fence.


Так было всегда в Северной Ирландии? Футбло был более популярен когда либо? Расскажи об этом.
Football was once the most popular sport in Northern Ireland. Back in the 1960s, 70s football was really well supported and because of the ability to draw a big team in the European Cup, Glentoran got really massive crowds. The record was 40,000 vs Benfica in 1967 which we drew 1-1 and 0-0 in Lisbon
and became the first team ever to lose on the new away goals rule. Glentoran became the first team to stop Benfica scoring at their home ground. The national cup finals got really big crowds aswell, I remember reading that the national cup final plus the 2 replay matches attracted a total of 90,000 fans. The reason that attendances have gotten lower is because the quality has gotten poorer, little money has been invested in youth setups and our football association has managed very poorly. When Sky Sports arrived in 1992 with the new English Premiership, attendances started to get even worse as fans preferred to sit at home and watch a game on TV instead of experiencing a real match on the terrace which is what I and other loyal supporters like best. Ice Hockey arrived in Belfast in 2000 and they attracted a lot of fans who said the quality was better. The other reason why football has become less popular is due to the lack of coverage in the media. Our national channel (BBC1 and BBC2) prefer not to talk about football but concentrate more on rugby and gaelic football. Sadly, the only time we hear about football on the news is when it is a bad story. They never report anything good and never mention any results. The only video coverage they give us is when they broadcast the 2 cup finals live every year. Although, ironically, Sky Sports have a contract which means they have to broadcast 5 Irish Premiership matches every season which has given us a boost (after making our attendances go down since 1992!)

Это удивительно. Ведь совсем рядом с вами Англия, в которой футбол очень популярен и немалая поддержка есть почти у каждой команды, не зависимо от дивизиона. Так же Шотландия, но в меньшей степени. У вас, как у Республики Ирландия и в Уэльсе все наоборот. Почему такая разница?
The difference, in my opinion, is how each country's football association makes decisions. Back in 1960s, all leagues from each country was similar and attracted the same attendances and quality of football. Since then, the FA has pushed on and managed the game well whereas the people in Northern Ireland started to dislike football because of the decisions the Irish Football Association made. The youth development became poor so the quality became worse. Irish League clubs used to be able to compete with top European sides but now they don't. Other countries have grown and generated more money and attracted more supporters. The quality in Northern Ireland has declined in the last 40 years. Less fans coming to matches means there is less money to spend on development and upgrading stadiums. Also because when Sky Sports started in 1992, a lot of people who went to games in Northern Ireland now prefer to sit in the pub on a Saturday afternoon and watch an English game on TV because it is free to do so and they can drink and socialise with friends. An average attendance in 1960 would have been about 25-30,000, now it is under 2,000 because of these reasons. Scotland and England have more money to market the leagues and to help out clubs improve their stadiums and training facilities. This just does not happen in Northern Ireland, Wales and Republic of Ireland.

Что ты думаешь по поводу английской модели фанатизма. Она не имеет многих баннеров и пиротехники, других красок на секторе. Это только песни. Ну и конечно, что скажешь о хулиганах. Почему этого нет в Северной Ирландии, или есть?
I dislike the English model of supporting their teams. Because I am interested in supporting my team by standing and using banners, flags and pyro. In England this is not allowed. I would go mad if I was made to sit down at a football match. In England if a group wishes to bring non official banners, they must produce a fire safety certificate in order to gain entry to the stadium! This is ridiculous and takes away some of the freedoms and liberties that make it unique to be part of an ultra-group. They are not allowed flares or smokes because modern club officials see this as un-safe and worry too much about people getting hurt. Although it is true to an extent, sometimes its wrong and I think clubs should allow fans to support their teams like ultras do all over the world. If Northern Ireland was to bring in laws which would ban flares and other pyro, I wouldn't be happy at all. Supporting a football team with banners and pyro is colourful and unique and it is one thing that sets football apart from all other sports. Football without ultras is nothing. Clubs in England see supporters as customers and will treat them as customers. They should treat supporters as the most important thing to their club as it is the supporters who pay into the match and give the club money. They should be allowed to support their team using banners and other stuff instead of being made to feel like they are in prison (sitting down and shutting up sometimes).

As for hooligans, Northern Ireland had a hooligan problem years ago. There was lots of riots between Glentoran and Linfield and other clubs such as Cliftonville and Donegal Celtic. During the height of the troubles between 1969 and 1998 there was a lot of fighting because of sectarianism and there was a large police presence at games. Today there is little trouble except for when Glentoran play Linfield or sometimes Portadown (the rival ultra group). Most Irish League fans today have no knowledge of ultras and therefore they are not interested in hooligans or fighting other fans. Today's society is too politically correct!

Помоги нам разобраться в ваших религиозных и политических разногласиях с соседями. В чем ваши главные разногласия, и с какими странами в большей степени (Англия, Уэльс, Шотландия, Республика Ирландия).
We have NO political differences and religious disagreements with Wales, Scotland and England. The only differences we have with these 3 countries is the different ways we support our football team - ultras/ non ultras/customers etc (explained in my previous answers).

Если эти политические разногласия перенести на территорию Северной Ирландии и футбольные клубы. Какая картина будет? Кто какую позицию поддерживает? Мы знаем, что клуб Дерри Сити из города находящегося в Северной Ирландии, играет, тем не менее, в Чемпионате Республики Ирландия. По каким причинам?
However, the political differences we have with Republic of Ireland and to a lesser extent, clubs in Northern Ireland are massive. For a start, because of the sectarian troubles between Catholic and Protestant between 1969 and 1998, there was lots of trouble and murders. Matches between Glentoran
(protestant) and Derry City (catholic) were very heated and there was always riots because of the political situation. Derry City decided that they could not cope with all of the trouble anymore at football so they left the Irish League and applied to join the league in Republic of Ireland to get away from the trouble.

Since 2005, there is a new competition called the Setanta Cup which is a tournament between the best teams from Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. This is sometimes heated because of the political differences between the two countries and the religious beliefs that each side of supporters has. Glentoran's last match was in Dublin against Bohemian FC and there was several arrests and trouble (see pictures from the Bohemians game on www.legion1882.com, right hand side). Some of the clubs in our league are catholic and some our protestant. Lately league games have been calm because the political situation has calmed a bit since the Good Friday Agreement in 1998, there is barely trouble now in Northern Ireland, only when we play teams from Republic of Ireland.

I would say the only big disagreement that exists in Northern Ireland is the one between protestant clubs (Glentoran, Linfield and some others) and a catholic club called Donegal Celtic who have been in the 2nd tier of the league and tried to appeal for promotion based on the fact they were catholic and that the top tier needed a catholic football team! Donegal Celtic used to be an amateur club and made the rise to senior football and into the premiership 4 years ago. The first game between them and Glentoran was nervous as it was the first time the two teams had faced each other in a league match. There was a heavy police presence and helicopters circling the stadium but the fans did not cause any trouble. Donegal Celtic were then relegated 2 years later. This is before they tried to appeal for promotion based on religious grounds in 2008.

Расскажи нам в двух словах об Ирландской Республиканской Армии. Скажи, что ты думаешь об И.Р.А., и имела ли эта организация какое-то влияние на футбол в твоей стране в прошлом, настоящем.
The IRA are a group of terrorists who formed nearly a century ago. Their aim is to re-unite the island of Ireland so that Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland become one country under one rule and away from the control of the Queen and mainland Britain. They have had little influence on football since the troubles in the 60s, 70s and 80s when tensions were raised over sectarian barriers (protestant players not playing for catholic clubs and vice versa). They have no influence at the present moment and everyone hopes
that it stays that way.

Хорошо, достаточно общей информации и политики. Расскажи о нынешних ультрас Гленторана. Как их много, и что это за люди. Расскажи об организации вашей группы, и ваших отношениях с клубом.
Our current ultras group - Legion 1882 was founded on Boxing day in 2007 and we had a small display. The aim was for this bunch of friends to support Glentoran FC in a unique way - with colour and noise. We recruited more members the following season including a former member of the Blue Order and he helped make the group bigger and helped us gain knowledge on the ultras scene. We started getting interested in buying such items as flares and became more aware of what it means to be an ultra and what it means to stand as a group and be united as a group. We started off with little members and have slowly expanded. It is hard to gain a lot of members because the attendances are so low. Today we have around 10 main members and this can expand on match days to 80+ for big matches and for a group that size in a small stand, the noise is amazing. We have the biggest match of the season coming up tomorrow night against Linfield and the crowd will massive. We have a large display planned with big flags, smoke bombs and flares.

The kind of people we have in our group vary. There are some people like myself and the guy from the Union Bears who have the ultra-mentality and believe that supporting your team and sticking together is really important, others are new into the group and are willing to understand and learn what it means to be in a group. We have an okay relationship with our club, we can communicate with the ground officer if we have any problems. Generally nowadays the club does not like us using flares because the government are
trying to bring in laws which will make using pyro illegal. The group are strongly opposed to this.

Хорошо. Расскажи, вы имеете какие-то скидки на билеты, чтобы попасть на стадион?
Есть ли какие-то ограничения для вас на стадионе, запреты?

We don’t have any discount on tickets to get into our matches as such..
an adult season ticket costs £150 and a concession is £50. You can get a
family season ticket for around £150 which includes 1 adult and 3 children.
Regarding stadium bans, there is no laws and no police powers at football
matches to make bans happen, we are very lucky!

Как часто вас можно увидеть на выездных играх? Какой транспорт вы обычно используете для поездки в другой город. Как много людей едет?
Например, в нашей стране поездка на выездной матч ценится очень высоко, и очень популярно. Как это у вас?

We are very lucky that the grounds hold a lot of fans and games very
rarely sell out, so the whole group get to see ALL away games or whatever
ones they choose. I go to ALL games home and away because I love my football
team and it is easily affordable to do so. Most away matches we would travel
by bus and have a few drinks. The odd match, I would travel by car and other
group members would do the same. Our favourite away match would have to be
Coleraine because it is the furthest. Normally Legion 1882 would hire out
our own private bus and we would dress up or buy a large amount of drink and
enjoy ourselves. The away trips that are closer to home, we would normally
drive to them as drinking is not as fun in the city.

Как дела обстоят с алкоголем?
В нашей стране, родины водки, это настоящая проблема. Очень много людей, страдают болезнию алкогализма и нация дигродирует. Потому на стадионах среди ультрас очень популярен лозунг «ХВАТИТ ПИТЬ». Много ультрас не употребляют вообще никакой алкоголь, занимаются спортом, и всячески это пропагандируют, используя стикеры, плакаты, баннеры.
People in Northern Ireland love alcohol! Everyone here can drink a lot
and this happens at football matches. Football grounds are allowed to sell
alcohol but you are not allowed to bring in alcohol from outside. Most fans
do bring in alcohol from outside because security is poor and most of the
stewards in the section where Legion 1882 sit love what we do and normally
do not mind us drinking as long as we don’t smash any bottles etc.

Вы занимаетесь производством атрибутики своей группы? Где вы ее делаете, в своей стране или за ее пределами? Что именно вы производите, и кто может иметь это, только члены или вы продаете это?
I am one of the main people involved in making stuff for our group yes.
For making merchandise, the group has struggled for money lately and we
haven't been able to make anything new. The last thing we made was t-shirts
which we got made in Thailand for a cheap price and made a good profit.
Anyone can buy a t-shirt from the football matches and it is only our
members who are allowed to sell it and be trusted with the money.

От чего группа имеет деньги, чтобы покупать материал для флагов, баннеров. На какие средства вы существуете?
Legion 1882 gets their money from the members and small donations from
fans. Most members donate a certain amount each month and this automatically
comes out of their bank account into our bank account. This is our main
source of money and it helps fund most displays and the running of the
website.

Имеете ли вы контакты с другими ультрас в стране, дружбу с кем-то? И то же самое с фанатами из других стран?
Unfortunately at the moment, we do not have an official friendship with
any other group. We know of maybe one other group in Northern Ireland called
The Red Terrace, who are ultras of Portadown FC. Sadly they have become
inactive in this past year. One of the main members in Legion 1882 has a
strong friendship with members in The Blue Order and Union Bears of Rangers
FC as he regularly attended Rangers matches before becoming disillusioned
with Modern Football.

Какое положение вы имеете с использованием пиротехники? Какое наказание следует за этим?
Our group uses fireworks quite often. This includes flares, stroboskopes, bengals, basically any pyro you can think of! The fans love it and it used to be a very colourful and important part of our display. From this season onwards, the government is bringing in new laws which will stop us using all fireworks forever or the club will be fined. Our club is in a dangerous financial position so we cannot let them get fined or they may go out of business. We nearly set our own stand on fire at a recent game against Linfield because a member dropped a flare down the side and onto the wooden beam below the stand. The group has therefore agreed to stop using fireworks at home matches. We still plan to use fireworks at the away games but not as much. The punishment is a big fine for the club and eventually, when new laws are brought in by the government, people found guilty will be removed from the ground and maybe fined.

Каким ты видишь будущее ульрас сцены своей страны?
The future of ultras in this country is decreasing I think, it does not look too well. More people are interested in watching premier league football on sky sports instead of going to their local football games. Less people are going to matches and it is only ourselves who maintain some sort of ultra culture in Northern Ireland, and even that is not going too well lately.

Yuri Paretski/Erlebnis Fussball.

FC Bohemians Dublin - FC Glentoran Belfast'2010 - поездка в соседнюю Ирландию.



FC Linfield Belfast - FC Glentoran Belfast'2009


FC Coleraine - FC Glentoran Belfast'2009


FC Lisburn Distillery - FC Glentoran Belfast'2009


FC Glentoran Belfast - FC Linfield Belfast'2010


FC Portadown - FC Glentoran Belfast'2010


FC Linfield Belfast - FC Glentoran Belfast'2008


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